Update to: Another all too common story of Indian Men's behavior

I got an e-mail from the Blog reader who had sent her story.. asking me to take it off because the boyfriend has seen the story and is now upset. Who cares what the boyfriend feels? I certainly don't and I told her that she shouldn't either. Hasn't he done enough? She is in fear now of herself and her baby. What kind of monster is this guy? Do you not get it idiot head that the woman is right now carrying a baby, YOUR BABY, and get it through your thick head to be supportive to her and be there in every sense of the word. This world is no longer about you..

I would like to send an open letter out to the boyfriend.. You may feel big as a man trying to hurt a vulnerable woman who right now needs less of your dramas and more of the support. Allow her to express her thoughts and opinions and feelings.. You CANNOT continue to control her every feelings. Out of respect to the woman, I would take it off and I may do that.. However, I will NOT take it off just because the jackass again wants to control her life and feelings.

So, to the jackass boyfriend who needs to grow up and learn how to be a real man and take responsibility of his actions.. If you have the guts.. don't hide behind the woman and try to hurt her because she shared her feelings anonymously.. but rather, contact me directly and give me a good reason as to why someone who wanted to share her feelings cannot... I am sorry she may allow you to control her but I will not allow you to control me. Get your act together.. Become a man, take responsibility for your actions and stop hiding behind your family, culture, and your woman.

I will take off this blog story ONLY after I have spoken to the jackass who can convince me why I should not "allow" the woman who is in pain to share her story to help lessen her burden on her chest.

Thank you.

Update to: Another all too common story of Indian Men's behavior

I got an e-mail from the Blog reader who had sent her story.. asking me to take it off because the boyfriend has seen the story and is now upset. Who cares what the boyfriend feels? I certainly don't and I told her that she shouldn't either. Hasn't he done enough? She is in fear now of herself and her baby. What kind of monster is this guy? Do you not get it idiot head that the woman is right now carrying a baby, YOUR BABY, and get it through your thick head to be supportive to her and be there in every sense of the word. This world is no longer about you..

I would like to send an open letter out to the boyfriend.. You may feel big as a man trying to hurt a vulnerable woman who right now needs less of your dramas and more of the support. Allow her to express her thoughts and opinions and feelings.. You CANNOT continue to control her every feelings. Out of respect to the woman, I would take it off and I may do that.. However, I will NOT take it off just because the jackass again wants to control her life and feelings.

So, to the jackass boyfriend who needs to grow up and learn how to be a real man and take responsibility of his actions.. If you have the guts.. don't hide behind the woman and try to hurt her because she shared her feelings anonymously.. but rather, contact me directly and give me a good reason as to why someone who wanted to share her feelings cannot... I am sorry she may allow you to control her but I will not allow you to control me. Get your act together.. Become a man, take responsibility for your actions and stop hiding behind your family, culture, and your woman.

I will take off this blog story ONLY after I have spoken to the jackass who can convince me why I should not "allow" the woman who is in pain to share her story to help lessen her burden on her chest.

Thank you.

Yet another homosexual encounter

Here is a story from another reader:

I have been with my lover for 2 years and last month, he went to India to visit his parents and he had promised me that he would tell his parents about me finally but he came back, married to a woman and said sorry, he couldn't hurt his parents. He wants still wants me to be there for him and be with him and said he can make sure his wife does not intefere with our relationship but I was like.. What the fuck?? I feel so hurt and torn apart. I feel used and manipulated. Why Why Why???

What's with Indian guys & closet homosexual lifestyles?

My take on this.. If you like guys.. It's fine.. but don't drag others into it by marrying women just to hide it from your family and friends, not to count your lover's emotions and well being. Learn to be honest and you'll go a long way.

Here is another story shared by a Blog reader:

I want to tell you about my experience. I am an Indian woman who had an arranged marriage with an Engineer. He seemed to be a perfect match and both our families loved this union. One month after marriage, I discovered he had a male lover that he was very close to. He told me that I had to accept him now that I had married him or else no one will take me as you know how society in India is. He was all too right about knowing how to manipulate me and the society. I had no choice as I could not tell anyone about this horrible life that he was living and forcing me to live with him. We then migrated to US and I felt that maybe he will leave his lover behind so he will forget him. But instead, with in 3 months, he managed to arrange to have his lover come to the USA and things got even worse because now, his lover was living with us (everyone in his family and back home knew the lover as his "best" friend and not one even dare suspect that such a relationship was existing between them.. but now, thinking back, I think everyone in his family and around him knew but pretended that they were only best friends).

This lover his of his was now living with him and I and him sharing the bedroom and not me. It was the harder to digest it all and he kept reminding me as no one would marry me if I left him and at least he was providing me with financial and societal security so I should be thankful to him for giving me a good name to marry. My family said the same to me and told me to stick it out. In the meanwhile, I got pregnant and his manipulation got even worse. Finally, after 1 year of this nightmare in India, and 2 in US, I finally got courage to leave him and took my baby from this horrible situation. I realize how for someone like me, who is very independent minded was able to be sucked into this manipulative world, being well educated, an engineer myself, who could have picked up the pieces much earlier but did not due to social and family pressure, I not only lost a chance to be with another possible match who could have treated me much better and with respect, dignity, and honor but instead I am forever scared by this man. No one even his family even believes or rather refuses to believe about him and his best friend lover and instead he has told everyone there that I was a bad woman and hence the marriage fell apart.

Why does the Indian society continue to turn the cheek when knowing someone is doing bad things? I hope my story tells your readers about to really check out sexual preferences and if there are any suspicious "male or female best friends" that they cannot be without, can be a warning sign for even the arranged marriage woman to look at. Just to let you know, I have since met a wonderful man, an Indian but who accepts me for who I am, treats me with respect, honor, and dignity that I deserve, loves my child and despite having never been married himself before, does not treat me like a plague or a used toy that he can play with and throw away until his heart desires. I met too many Indian men who treated me because I was divorced as a plague and I had almost given up on Indian men until this one came along. He has asked me to marry him and adopt my daughter and we're very happy. I must admit though, I do believe his types are very rare because MOST Indian men treat divorced women like plague or believe it's okay to have a relationship with them and not be committed. I do hope that at least with the Indians aboard, this mentality changes and people become more open minded but also more honest. Stop ruining other people's lives for your own gains for God's sake!! Thanks for reading.

Another all too common story of Indian Men's behavior

Hi. I have been watching your blog website for a few months and have debated about writing to you about my story. After the latest events I decided it was definately time to share my story with you. About 5 years ago (April 2001) I met an Indian guy online. He had only been in the US for 6 months at that time. We started dating and seemed to get close very quickly. We were living about a 2 hour drive away from each other and would see each other almost every weekend. I knew nothing about Indian guys at that time but I sure have learned a lot since then. I had been in a serious relationship that had ended 4 months earlier. He was very sympathetic about listening to how I had gotten my heart broken. In fact he was very quick to tell me that he loved me. The job that I had at the time was one where I traveled a lot. My next job location was in the same town that he lived in (from september 2001 through december 2001) and so for a few months he moved in with me. Then my next assignment (january 2002 through october 2002) took me back to the town I was working in when I originally met him. Again we would take turns spending almost every weekend with each other.

I was falling in love with him and thought he felt the same way about me. Then in October 2002 I was able to work again in the town that he worked in. We lived in different apartments at that time but were alternating between which place we stayed at. I don't think there were many nights that we spent apart. His family lives in India and I knew that they didn't know about me. At that time it was fine with me because they weren't really a daily part of our lives since they were so far away. He really seemed to enjoy the US and never really talked about India much. Even when I asked him questions he would try not to answer much. I got the impression that he was embarrassed about being from India. Everything seemed to be going really well until december. We were at his apartment when we got a call from his mom saying that his dad had died suddenly. We made him arrangements for the first flight back that we could get and went to my place since it was closer to the airport. I feel like I watched him age in a matter of hours. While he was there in India for the funeral he kept in contact with me. Writing me about how he was feeling and the things that were happening there. My heart was breaking for him to be going through that. We were both in our early 20's at that time. He emailed me that he had talked to his mom about me and that he thought she might agree for us to get married. I was very sad for his family but overjoyed at the thought of marrying him. That on Valentines Day he did ask me to marry him. We went shopping together and picked out the ring of my dreams. I was very excited and started to think of what kind of wedding to have.

He started going into a deep depression. He wouldn't hardly talk to me. He would go days without showering on changing his clothes. He went to work and slept. It's like I watched the life drain out of him. I think that is what changed him. Before that he was so full of life and fun. I should explain that he is the only son in his family. So after his father died that left his mom and his sister living in India. He began to feel very torn. He had a great job here and could provide for his family much better here. In fact he had always sent them money since he had been here. I knew that and was fine with him wanting to help them. With his depression we started fighting more and more. Him saying he should go back to India kept increasing. I wanted him to see someone and get help but he refused. I didn't know what to do for him. I told him that I thoght we should split up and he could figure out what he wanted to do. I told him that I didn't want him to stay here in the US because of me and then end up resenting me for the rest of his life. So in september of 2003 we split up and I moved into my own apartment. I was still in a different state than where I grew up and had not really made any friends here other than him. I knew people at work but didn't really have any close friends.

A month later I got a call from my family. My dad had been diagnosed with cancer. He was having really bad symptoms and they were going to do surgery to remove the largest tumor that was causing his symptoms. He would go to surgery first thing the next morning. There was no way for me to catch a flight to get me there before he went into surgery so I booked a flight that left around 6am. I called my boyfriend (ex at that time) and told him the whole story. He told me to come stay with him that night and he would take me to the airport the next morning. He was absolutely wonderful to me that night. He held me while I cried and kept telling me everything would be ok until I fell asleep in his arms. In the middle of the night I woke up and started crying and he immediately woke up and pulled me into his arms again and comforted me until I could sleep again. While I was home we kept in contact through instant messaging and email. They were going to do radiation to the other tumors in my dad and then they were going to do chemo. His doctor told us that they would treat it as best as they could but this would be what he would die from. I started thinking that he had never been able to walk me down the aisle for my wedding and that he would never see my children. I began to undertand what my boyfriend had gone through. I remember thinking that at least I was having the chance to say goodbye to my dad and make sure I told him everything I always wanted to say. And when it was time for me to come back he picked me up at the airport and again I spent the night with him and he comforted me again. It was like we had never been apart. I had to decide if I wanted to leave my job and go back hom with my family or not. I hated thinking that my time left with my dad was limited and I didn't want to miss any of it. But I also knew that he was going to go for chemo and that it would make him really sick. I wasn't sure if I could watch him go through that. So I decide to wait and figure things out.

The next month in November I got a call from my family again. His case had been presented at a tumor conference and there was surgeon that was willing to operate and remove the remaining mass. This would increase his chance of survival. Without the surgery he would die from this. With the surgery we were told he would most likely get more time and that there could possibly be a chance that he could recover. The surgery had been schedule in 2 days and they wanted me to come home as soon as possible. So I booked the same flight time that I had a month before and called my ex. He said of course I could stay the night and that he would take me to the airport. That night was just like the night a month before. He was great again. And again he picked me up once I got back from my trip. I still wasn't sure when I came back how long I would stay here. He still wasn't sure what he was going to do. We didn't get back together but we definately kept seeing each other on occasion. It was easy for one of us to pick up the phone and call the other and say we wanted to see each other. So we occasionally saw each other. I knew that he was seeing other people but I was too. Then in June of 2004 I realized we were both still here and that I loved this man and that I wanted to be with him and only him. We continued to talk and email or chat and sometimes see each other and I just became more certain that I wanted us to try again. He was still feeling pressure from his family to move back to India but he repeatedly told me that he didn't want to do that. He would call me and ask me what he should do. One night on the phone he started crying because he didn't want to give up his life here. I told him that I wanted to come over and see him. When I got there I told him that I wanted us to try again. He said that he had been seeing someone (with my same name) and that it wasn't serious. I told him if it wasn't serious to call it off with her. I told him that we had a past together that we needed to figure out. I told him that I hadn't been able to move back home with my family because I couldn't stand to leave him here. He agreed that we could start seeing each other more often, which we did.

One night while I was over there he got a call on his cell phone and the called id said it was his work calling. When he answered I could hear it was a girls voice. He glanced at me very quickly and said that he couldn't talk right then. After he got off the phone I started asking question. What was he hiding that he couldn't say in front of me and who was that? He admitted it was a girl that lives in India. He had transferred his office calls to his cell phone. She was someone his family wanted him to meet and get married to. He said she was pretty and nice and his family really liked her. We talked about it and he said that he didn't know what he wanted to do. He felt that he should marry her to make his family happy but that he didn't want to just move back and give up his life here. I told him that it was fine with me for him to keep talking to her and getting to know her as long as he kept seeing me. I told him to give both situations a try and then make a decision. So I thought that was the situation that was going on. In late November 2004 I got another call from my family. They had found a new tumor in my dad and wanted to do surgery again. This time it wasn't an emergency and they set it out about a week and a half in advance. So I made the travel arrangements and was going to spend the night with my boyfriend and him take me to the airport again. The next morning when the alarm went off I got up and was in the bathroom getting dressed when I noticed there were several condoms in the trash that I knew we hadn't used. I woke him up and confronted him about it. He admitted the other girl that he had been seeing had come over and that he did have sex with her. It was not a pleasant trip to the airport. I was devastated. He had told me he wouldn't see her again and I had thought we were trying to work on things. I trusted him that he had been telling the truth and he had lied. On the way to the airport he pulled the car over and tried to hug me and I pulled away from him. He kept apologizing and said he wouldn't see her again and that we would work on things and that he would make everything ok. I told him that I was very hurt and would have to think about it. I barely said goodbye when I got out of the car. I sat in the airport waiting for my flight and crying. He called my cell phone several times and I couldn't bear to talk to him. I cried the whole 4 hour flight back home. I knew people were looking at me but I didn't care. When I got off the plane he called again and apologized and said he wanted to make it alright again. I told him I had to get my rental car and drive 2 hours were my dad was and that we would talk later.

My dads surgery went great and he got out of the hospital sooner than they had predicted. I had gotten approval from work to be off a month. He and I talked frequently during that time. He promised me that he was not seeing the girl in our town. He was still talking to the girl in India and I was ok with that. He kept changing his mind about what he wanted. He would say it would be good for him to marry her and make his family happy. Then he would say well maybe we could get married and he could travel back and forth between India and US. In fact that was his idea. That he would spend some time with his family there and then come back and stay with me for awhile. I told him that was fine with me. That I made good money at my job and could support all of us. Then I could take time off while he was here. There were some nights we both agreed that was good. Other nights we would argue about him marrying the other girl. I can't tell you how many sleepless nights I had that month. I guess that was really when my depression started. If that nights phone conversation went bad then I would lie in bed and cry for him. I literally ached from the thought of not being with him for the rest of my life. A few nights before I was to come back I called him. While talking to him I heard a girls voice on his end. I demanded to know what was going on. That other girl was there. I told him to get her out now. He said they were only watching a movie. I told him I didn't care what they were doing but she needed to leave now. I heard him say something to her but couldn't hear what it was. Then she left and he stayed on the phone with me for a couple of hours. It was a lot of me yelling and crying and him apologizing. I talked about hopes and dreams of our future and asked how he could throw that away. He said that he wished he wouldn't. By the end of the conversation I was still very hurt and confused but I knew that I loved him and wanted to be with him. So I flew back to him on New Years Eve and stayed with him. I was so upset at that time about finding out that she had been at his place. I admit my thinking may not have made much sense back then but I was terrified to go home because I wouldn't know if she was at his place or not. I basically refused to go home and told him we had to figure out what we were going to do. One night while he was sleeping I couldn't get to sleep so I was going to do something online to distract my thoughts. I think I went to check my email and he was still signed in to his. I found many emails from the girl in our town that told me just how much time they has spent together in December. That night he had assured me that was the only night he had seen her since I had been gone. Well since most of the emails were forwarded back and forth a few times I got confirmation from both sides that he had been lying. I was able to get both girls contact info.

I went in the bedroom and woke him up by yelling at him. Once he woke up enough to figure out what had happened he started apologizing again and promising not do it again, and that he would be with me, blah blah blah. Each time I would try to think of life without him I just wanted to die. I am not sure how things went so bad in my life to get me to all that. I knew that if any of my friends were putting up with what I was that I would do everything possible to get them away from the guy but that didn't stop me from letting myself go through it. I did send both of girls emails. I also got emails from both. The girl in our town contradicted a lot of things he had told me. She said that he didn't tell her to leave that night in December. She said she got mad listening to him lying to me about it and that she decided to leave. She said that she hadn't talked to him much since then and didn't really care to. She said he wasn't the guy she thought he was and that she didn't even care to be friends with him anymore. Yet I later came to find out that she still chatted with him online for a few months after that.

Even more interesting than her was the girl in India. She wrote back saying that she knew about both of us. That of course he had told her he wasn't seeing the other girl anymore and that he told her I wanted to get back together with him and that he couldn't get rid of me. She informed me that she thought he was still in love with me and that he talked to her about me a lot. She encouraged me not to give up on him. She said that she would love for us to get back together. She explained to me that she was not interested in getting married at that time for her specific reasons. She also said that she thought I truely loved my boyfriend and she would like to see us back together. She became a great friend to me and would often give me advice and encouragement. I continued to see him occasionally. Then he planned a quick trip to go there. His family had set it up with her family that they would meet. He told me that if she didn't agree to marry him then he would still want to marry me. She assured me that she would keep in touch during that time. She did keep her promise. She would go to an internet cafe and email me or so we could chat. When she met him in person she told him the only way that she would marry him was if he agree to stay living in the US with me and let her stay in India with his family. That way she would know he was with me and I was happy and that she would be able to get married and make her family happy. He told her that he didn't want to marry her like that. That if they got married he wanted a real marriage. She refused to give him a real marriage and be a wife in any way but name only. So he came back and tried to talk to her by email and phone to reconsider. Everytime he talked about marrying her he would say she was nice, or his family likes her, she would make his family happy, or something like that. He never talked about loving her or falling in love with her. When we talked about us he would sometimes admit that he loved me but that we couldn't be together or sometimes he would deny that he loved. But he wasn't consistent about it. And I wanted desperately to believe that we would get back together. And I had the girl in India encouraging me to hang in there and not give up and that we would find a way to get us back together.

My boyfriend and I kept seeing each other through all of this mess. Most nights I would spend at his house and soon it came to be that I had spent every night there I considered myself living there. We continued to talk about us and what we were going to do. Sometimes he would say that he would marry me. When I asked when he would say in a year after he got his sister married. He told me that he would have a harder time getting his sister a good husband if he was married to an American. He told me that he would have to go to India and live there for awhile to help his family but then after sometime we could get married. Other times he would tell me to not be crazy and that of course he couldn't marry me. Other times he would say why do we need to get married, it's already like we are husband and wife. He has told me that for us to be able to get married I would need to lose weight. I lost 60 lbs. He wanted me to lose 15 more. I told him I would try. He said I needed to learn to cook Indian food for his family and to learn to hindi. I told him I would. I aked him to teach me to cook things they would like. He only taught me 3 dishes. I asked him to teach me hindi and he taught me a few words only. Then he said there was a hindi learning cd at his work that he would bring home for me but he never did. I found one at the library and showed him what I had learned one night when he got home from work. He just laughed and said what was the point in me trying because his family would never agree to it. It got to be such an emotional roller coaster that I was always stressed. He complained when I would cry at home so I tried very hard to keep it together. In fact it took everything I had to cope with things at home. Therefore my work started suffering. I was so on edge that I couldn't handle little things that would go wrong at work. I just had no ability to cope with anything else other than holding myself together when I was with him. My boss came to me and basically begged me to see a counselor and maybe try antidepressants. I told her I appreciated her concern but that I didn't care enough about myself to get help. I was being honest with her. If I couldn't have him I didn't care if I got better.

At the encouragement of some coworkers I did finally see a doctor and got on antidepressants. He put me on some meds and they were so bad that I couldn't get out of bed the whole weekend. Well my boyfriend went from complaining that I never slept (because of the diet pills to lose weight for him) to sleeping too much (from the antidepressants for him). I went back to the doctor and told him they were not working. I asked if he wanted them back and he said to throw them away. I told him I wasn't sure if I needed to take something everyday or just every now and then when I felt stressed. So he gave me xanax to relax me when I felt needed it. Things continued to be bad. He was still saying different things to me. He would get my hopes up by promising me that he would marry me and then destroy that hope by saying he couldn't. To be fair to him I am sure I was driving him a little crazy since I would ask him almost every night if he was going to marry me. I told him that I kept asking because he kept giving me different answers. He told me he kept giving me different answers because I kept asking and he didn't feel I would believe any answer. But when I would ask well what is the real answer his response would change. One night we got in a big fight. I started crying and after awhile he got really mad about it. I tried to get up and he kept holding my wrist. I waited a few minutes until he relaxed his grip and then pulled away from him. He asked where I as going and I said to take something to relax. I wasn't sure how much you would have to take of something for it to be too much but at that point I didn't care what happened. So I took a mixture of different things I had just to see what would happen. My thought was if I wake up in the morning I will know to take more of each next time. If I don't wake up in the morning he will have realized how serious I had been all along. He asked what I took and I again just said something to help me relax. He told me that I shouldn't be taking any medications and pulled me close and held me the rest of the night while we slept. I woke up the next afternoon feeling very tired and had an extremely bad headache. Life continued on until there was another really bad fight on another night. That time I took all of the same pills but 2 more of everything than I did the first time. I thought I would just keep increasing it each time to see what would happen. The results were pretty much the same. I don't know if he realized what I did that night or if he even cared. He has all of my familys phone numbers. They are programmed in my cell phone that he had access to all the time. I don't know why he never called them and told them how bad I was getting. Maybe he didn't care enough. Maybe it would have been more convenient for him if I had died. At least that is what he thinks now.

II moved everything out of my apartment and into his one weekend. The next day I noticed I was having a lot of back pain. I didn't know if it was from moving or not. My old place was upstairs and so is his place so there was a lot of stair climbing that day. I also noticed that I hadn't started my period and that it was past time. I took a pregnanct test at my friends place but was pretty sure I would already know the results. I found out I was pregnant. I tried to keep it from him but only made it about a week. I was so hormonal and he just kept saying mean things to me. I guess I hoped if he knew that he might be a little nicer. Oh and he was nicer but only to get me to have an abortion. I can't tell you how many times he has asked me to have an abortion. I am currently in my 4th month. He left recently to go to India for a visit and will get back here soon. He has sent me several emails since he has been gone. In typical Indian guy fashion he said his mom found him a girl there that she wants him to marry. According to him she is better than he thought he could ever get there. He says she is really pretty, smart, nice, and he would get a lot of money for dowery. Then he could use that money to get a really good husband for his sister. He asked me if I would give him permission to marry this girl. I told him no. He has since sent me several emails asking this question and I have told him I will not give permission. I am not sure why he didn't just get engaged to her while he was there without telling me because then what would I do? After all that seems to be a recurring pattern with these guys. One of the times while chatting his mom saw he was talking to me and got very upset. The next email I got from him was to say that he was moving back to india for good and that I need to realize we are never getting married and would I please do him the favor of letting him marry that girl? He sent me another instant message and we talked for awhile. He just kept saying that he had made up his mind that he was leaving the US and would not come back here. That would make his family happy and that was all he cared about. He said that it was my decision to not have an abortion and that he wanted nothing to do with me or the baby. He is wanting to marry that girl and has absolutely no plans of telling her or his family about the baby. He said that he doesn't want to talk to me anymore and wants to forget all about us. He asked me a few more times if he could marry her and I said no. He said his family is very mad at him that he hasn't married her yet and that I am only causing him problems by not agreeing. I don't know what he thinks he is doing for me by marrying her. He doesn't know her, or love her, or have any kind of history with her. Yet he still wants to leave me and his unborn child for her. I was crushed to hear that he wants to try to forget us.

I have recently started taking some antidepressants that have a low risk with pregnancy that my OB doctor prescribed. There was one time about a week after I found out that I was pregnant when we got in another fight and I was tempted to take something again but I just kept thinking of my sweet little innocent baby and I knew I couldn't ever do anything to mywelf that would risk this little life. I consider that this little baby has saved my life. I consider the baby as a blessing that has given me hope and meaning to my life. I just hate that the father of the baby is so stupid to give us up. I hate that my baby will miss having a father while growing up. The baby deserves better than he is giving. What do I tell the child when it is old enough to ask why it doesn't have a daddy? I have friends and family in another state which is where I will probably end up moving back. I am not sure when I will go. That is where things get tricky. He plans to talk to his manager when he gets back. He works for a company that can transfer him to india for work. He wants to pack up and leave ASAP. He is on a month to month lease for the apartment so that won't be a problem. His job will actually pay to ship all his things to India. So that will leave me without an apartment and any furnishings. I am hoping that I can get my one close friend that I have made here to let me stay with her. But she actually left this morning to go on vacation for a week. She left before I got up so she doesn't know this latest news. So I don't know what will happen when he gets back this week.

If you think any of this would be useful, have any questions, or comments just let me know. I am really glad that you are putting this book out there and I hope that other girls will read it before they go through anything I have. Maybe I should buy a copy for my child for when it is old enough to read it can really understand the situation. Thanks for what you are doing for girls out there.

The original posted who started it out..

His Blog.. Thank you for this:)

http://libranlover.blogspot.com/2005_01_01_libranlover_archive.html

Another Mutiny Blog about this blog:)

http://maniktahla.blogspot.com/2005_02_06_maniktahla_archive.html

Thanks for getting the word out!!

Indian Guys & Homosexual Experiences

Another comment from another reader:

I became friends with a gay Indian guy - he'd screw
three or four guys a week - white, black, latino. He
said he needed his "release."

Then he went home to India. He came back to the USA
and announced that he was getting married to some girl
his mother chose for him. I asked how he could do
that. His response was that he needed someone to take
care of his mother as she got older. I told him that
it was reprehensible of him to marry this girl and
continue to
have sex with guys outside of his marriage. He's
comfortable with it, and says it happens all the time
in India.

I don't think we will be friends much longer.

Another thread related to this Blog

http://www.sulekha.com/groups/postdisplay.aspx?cid=170846&forumid=756921

Thank you whoever started it!!!

Interesting thoughts there too..

Indian guys, white girls, and more...

Comments from another Blog reader: (He posted this on CL in June 04 and forwarded it to me to post on the blog)

I think all you Indian guys on this site whine too much (obviously, since you're at home watching Kal Ho Na Ho for the 17th time instead of going out and getting a life).

Since I'm an Indian guy, and have no trouble dating women (of any ethnicity) maybe you should read this posting...

Here's my $0.02.

Here's the deal (on why white women won't date you) Most of us Indian guys were brought up in a society where we were given plenty of love and attention by family, unconditionally. Now, you want to leave all that behind, and come to this country in pursuit of the almighty dollar, and you expect that white women will give you the same, like your mother did ?

No way, Jose. (Or Sandeep, or Ranjeet, or whatever...)

Women here are more used to men who have a LIFE - don't expect the arranged marriage kind of unconditionality here...

But here's 10 things that could help...

1--- Have things and people that you are really passionate about (coz we all know just how exciting writing code is and how much you look forward to it every day... NOT. Learn to play a musical instrument. Join a book club. Learn to make a simple bechamel sauce. Take a spanish class)

2--- Learn to dress sharp (if you can't carry off a pink shirt, or green shoes, forget it. Back in India, we didn't really have couture - now that you're here, don't stop at nikes and reeboks - know what a kate spade or a manolo blahnik is. And you techies can afford prada shoes, so go out and get some...)

3--- Read the New York Times (like it or not, it's more relevant to life here than reading the Times of India website.)

4--- Learn to have an opinion (learn to think for yourself. Read. Watch. Observe. Discuss. Learn.)

5--- Culinary adventures are good (learn about wine. buy a larousse gastronomique or a joy of cooking. learn how to make a mean sangria. taste at least 40 types of beer. don't eat any type of cuisine more than twice a week. invent a cocktail a week)

6--- Be proud of who you are and where you're from (Stop having a complex about being Indian. we invented the zero. we have the yummiest food in the world. indian clothes rock too. the tabla is the mot difficult percussion instrument to play. india is one of the most secular countries in the world. we have a great liberal and responsible media, unlike the controlled american media. 'nuff said)

7--- Learn to genuinely want to know more about other cultures and people (not just from the point of view of scoring chicks. learn what unites us as people, and what separates us too. have intense conversations.)

8--- Stop judging people (why do you desi guys just want white checks, eh? stop judging black women, or latin women, or asian women. you fuckers stereotype white women, and then complain of people stereotyping you ??? That's fucked up... Learn to respect a woman in every role that she plays, and as a person. Be interested in her life, not just her skin. As a good friend, who is also a white chick, said - drop your boundaries, not your pants)

9--- Personal grooming is good for you (stop buying the cheapest soap at safeway or rite aid. trim your nose hair. gel might make your hair look better. remember, buying neutrogena or aveda will not make you grow breasts or change your hormonal balance. ever heard of the term metrosexual ? Though dated, it still holds some value...)

10--- To sum it up - women are interested in you if you are interested in yourself. Focus on your life. Love yourself and take care of yourself. Nourish yourself intellectually, emotionally, physically and otherwise. only if you feel good about yourself, will anyone else feel good about you. Be interesting, and people will be interested in you. Enuff new agey crap, but it all holds true.

Bring on the hate mail (or write me a note saying you liked this posting...)

I hope someone reads this - all my time and effort !!!

Book's Table of Content

Contents

Preface
Acknowledgements

Introduction

Chapter One: Are You Interested In Dating an Indian Guy?
Chapter Two: FOB, ABCD, or IBCA?
Chapter Three: The Good
Chapter Four: The Bad
Chapter Five: The Ugly
Chapter Six: Best Places To Meet Them
Chapter Seven: Things You Must Find Out Right Away
Chapter Eight: The First Date
Chapter Nine: Beyond Dinner & a Movie
Chapter Ten: What Next?
Chapter Eleven: Stopping The Alarms
Chapter Twelve: The Proverbial Truths: Date Rape, AIDS, Homosexuality, & Pregnancies
Chapter Thirteen: Dating In The Electronic Age
Chapter Fourteen: Ready To Get Married?

Chapter Fifteen: Happily Ever After

Epilogue: What Have We Learned?

Special Thanks

This is the TOC for the book.. Sorry the format is a bit screwed up here on the blog site. But, you get the point..

Book update

I am amazed at the amount of interest on this subject and the stories, please keep them coming.. Just wanted to give you all an update. The book is coming along well and I hope to have it completed by year end, pending my other writing priorities don't take over my life. I am currently on assignment for three writing projects and as you can imagine, weaving between three different subject matters can be tricky. Publisher queries on the book have been abundunt and we're very close to a decision on the Publishing aspect. This book "WILL" be published:) Don't forget to pre-order your copies. It will be available in a Hard Cover, and E-Book format for digital download, obviously for a much cheaper price.

Just so that you know that I am doing this because I am really interested in getting these subjects discussed out in the open and not about money, I will be donating all my share of the profits from the book sales for a Woman's non profit who can come up with a program to help women who have been victimized by Indian men as well as providing counselling services to men who realize their abusive nature and want to get help.

If there is a non profit out there who would like to create such a program that the book sales can benefit from, please contact me via e-mail with your proposal and information on your organization for consideration. If your proposal is evaluated to bring the best possibility, you will be contacted.

In the next quarter, once the book has been on publishing and book tour schedule, I will be posting a pre-order link for those of you who have expressed interest in pre ordering. Thanks for reading again.

Indians "Allow" or Not "Allow"

So, I think it's about time for another personal comment:

Q: What are the underlying reasons behind the lack of confidence, maturity, and resepct in the Indian guy?

A: It has a lot to do with the Indian parent not nurturing them as a child and hence they are constantly seeking approval and love of their parents, even at the age of 50. Think about it. How many men you know who are in their 20's, 30's, 40's, and even 50's, who can't even move a muscle without their parents approval? I bet you can think of many of them. Why is that these men don't learn to become men? Just getting married and the act of sex doesn't make you a man but rather standing up for your beliefs, thoughts, and decisions is what makes you a man.

Other aspect of it is also that Indians do not believe in discussing things. How many Indians do you know who have had a discussion with their parents about Sex, and not on their wedding day?:) I bet majority of them have not had any such discussions, be it men or women. Lack of communication and social skills is another reason why Indian men lack in the "manhood" that most other races seem to have abundunce of. Hey, don't shoot the messanger, I am just stating the obvious. How can a man in his mid to late 20's, having a BS or MS Education, earning a nice salary, living on his own, still can otherwise not move a muscle without his parents approval? How many Indian parents "allow" their adult children to make decisions for their own lives? Good or bad? Notice, I quoted the word "allow", because when you speak to most Indians, that's how the position their discussion.. That's not allowed by my parents, or my culture or my society, or my race, or my religion, or my caste.... Many men always say oh, I am very open minded person, and I will allow my wife to do whatever she wants.. What do you mean ALLOW? Is she your property? Who are you to "allow" her to do anything? Don't you think she has a mind of her own and can think on her own?

The point is that until the Indian man stops treating the woman has a second class citizen, even in the United States of America, Indians have not progressed, no matter their education or income level.

The reasons?

Another comment:

I have a similar story to share with your readers. It makes me curious as to why the educated Indian community has become like this? Has anyone ever given thoughts to this or looked into it? Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Thank you for getting the word out..

Want to say Thank you to:

http://www.bloglines.com/blog/yuro

For listing and recommending my blog:) I didn't realize how much discussions are going behind the scenes about this blog.

What does it say people? Like someone mentioned on the Mutiny Anti Blog site, people will buy it because either they want to bitch about it or will agree with it:) It's called marketing baby!!!!!

And another:

http://siftingthroughit.blogspot.com/

And another:

http://www.sproutsearch.com/topics/dating

Too many similar stories

From yet another reader:

Good job. There have been way too many Indian men using the freedom lovin' American ways to disrespect women, Indian and Non Indian. It's about time an attempt at stopping this happens. Do you need any help? I would like to volunteer if you need it. I am in NYC and know too many similar stories from women who have been treated like crap by Indian men. Please let us know when your book tour will be coming this way.

Kudos!!

One more comment:

A book of this magnitude is needed. It's about time someone had the guts to expose bad sides of Indian culture. Sign me up on where to buy.

BRILLIANT!!!

Another comment..

Going to be 32 in November, and been 'dating' Indian men for way too long.. The worst line ever from a FOB is .. You are the first girl I am talking to.. REALLY? If I am, we should not be having this conversation!

And if you are coming out with a book soon, sign me up sister.. I will order a pre copy of that!!

I am amazed - A Mutiny Forum has started on this Blog

Someone IM'd me with this URL and I found it funny... Wanted to share it with you all.

http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/001007.html

I also had 50+ IM messages which I did not realize was also a form of communication people preferred. To those of you who have IM'd me, please e-mail me your comments and questions and I will be happy to post them on the blog and respond to you.

Now, to some of the things that they mention about my not knowing how to spell, and whatnot.. Actually, I started the blog as an accident and yes, I was not interested in wasting too much time in the beginning until I began to realize how much fire is in this subject.. So, yes, I did not bother to spell check.. Go figure.. Microsoft challanged call me:)..

Just to let you all know, I am a writer by profession and a published one at that. I will have no problems writing this book and publishing it:) The book is coming along well and don't worry, publisher is going to be there too.. I am sure you all know that there is an "editor" who checks for such typos.. I would rather focus on the meat and content, the actual subject matter. I will leave to the inimaginative souls to check my typos for me.

Thank you all that are for this blog and book and also to those who are against it. All you are doing is giving this subject much needed attention.. And for that, I thank you....

Received a 7 page long, detailed story from a reader

I haven't logged into this account in a while so I have been a bit lazy in writing this blog but today, I logged in and saw bunch of responses from people. Some were nasty, mainly guys who were angry for starting this blog and many were women with similar stories. There is one that I received, 7 pages long which I was not only shocked by but also saddened by. I really want to share this story with all of you out there but since the story is so detailed, I want to get permission from the person who went through it to see if I can put it on my blog as chapters to share with my readers. The story has all the elements of making a great movie and reading the story made me realize that there are worse Indians out there which need to be exposed even more so.

Stay tuned!!

keep your e-mails coming :)

From Yet Another Reader

Hi,

My story seems to be very similar to the ones shared on the blog. I am an Indian girl and this happened to me too. I think Indian men have no balls and no sense of responsibility. They just want to have their fun and that's it. They lie constantly and have different faces for different people. Most of them are abusive and have no respect for women, except their mom. I really hope to see this type of book hitting the stands because a warning of such kind is desperately needed. Indian guys are using their culture and hiding behind it to avoid responsibility. Great job!!

From Another Reader

Hi! I saw your blog & decided to write you with a story for yourbook. I am a white American girl. In December I met a guy who wantedme to meet his roommate. I resisted, but finally broke down & methim. He was an Indian guy. We became really close friends--hangingout once a week & talking on the phone for hours every night. He wassooo great. Soon we started dating. And why did we start dating? Well--I realized I really cared about him & loved him. And he feltthe same (or so I thought). He took me out for my birthday inFebruary & took me to a fancy restaurant & bought me Victoria'sSecret. So the 'dating' started to take form after that.Things were going well...then in the middle of March he went home tovisit his parents. When he got back, I didn't hear from him for aweek. I finally called him & he talked with me. Funny thing, hesaid, my mom hooked me up with a girl while I was home for theweekend. So now I am dating her & I am really sorry, but we can stillbe friends. I was shocked & hurt.I then found out from several friends similar stories. In one anIndian man was dating an American girl for a year & then went home toCalifornia & came back engaged with a girl his parents set him upwith. In another an Indian guy was dating a girl for 3 years & thendecided he had to go back to India to find a wife.I am not racist--and I am not the type of person who likes to judge afuture guy to date based on what guys in the past have done to me. However--I now am jaded & don't think I would ever date another Indianguy. They make great boyfriends, but eventually they have to getmarried--and it won't be to you. :)

The Update To My CL Post

This was the update I posted on Craig's List...

I am floored to see so many responses both on CL and to me personally regarding my post from both men and women. Men's post have either been extremely defensive, angry, or even sincere where they could see why Indian men get a bad rap. Of course, some wanting to convert my thoughts and start going for Indians. Some were surprised and shocked to see that I, myself am an Indian woman and not a white chick and some demanded how dare I go around bad mouthing my own culture... yadii yadi yada.. Women, most of them added to my stories list with more similar stories.

I have been asked to write a book about this and I am seroiusly considering it now since obviously this is an issue that hasn't been dealt with yet and with the growing populations of Indians in America, this is something that needs to be looked at seriously.

So, I am working on a book that had been on my mind for a while, but now with the floods of responses, making it into a reality.

The books will be a "A Guide To Dating An Indian Man" & yes, there will be one for the men too, about Indian women.. "A Guide To Dating An Indian Woman." Let's face it, us Indian women have our issues too. The books are not meant to be demeaning but will share a collection of stories with humor and self discovery.

So, if there are any men or women who have dated an Indian, and want to contribute your story to the collection, please e-mail indiandatingguide AT yahoo.com.

Please know that your stories will be given in the book as anonomous or under changed name unless you actually want to use your real name. We will change the names of the other parties involved for privacy purposes. If you are interested in sharing your experience or story related to this, please drop me a note with your name, phone number, a good e-mail address, and a short paragraph with your experience/story and I will contact you for a discussion and go from there.

Feel free to forward my post to anyone you think might be interested. Thank you CLers:)

My First Blog Post ---- Craig's List Started It All!!

So, the story goes.. I was looking to for a book on Craig's List and ended up surfing to the Personals section out of curiosity and found a post by a guy who asked the question "Why Don't Indian Men Deserve Dates"?? Interesting question I thought and I felt I had few answers for him.. So, I posted a response on CL with my thoughts on it... And that my friends, began the flood of e-mails and responses to my post.

I am posting my response to him here as a starter and encourage you to share your stories, experiences, and thoughts as well related to both Indian men and Women.

Now some basic information for those of you who may not be aware of some of these things:

In the Indian American community, we have these classifications as listed below, and you would fall into one of these catagories for sure as an Indian (Desi - a native slang for Indian native):

• FOB - Fresh Off The Boat - These are the H1B workers, Students who came here for Master's and then transferred to start working here on H1, L1 Transfers, and pretty much anyone who has been here less than about 5 years. This also includes the housewives who come on H4 dependent visas. This is where you find the trousers and white Nike combination, the thick bushy mustache, the oiled hair, the constant only India being best rattle, the "visits" to India which turn into instant arranged marraiges and when the parents come to visit when the baby is born so that you don't have to hire a baby sitter crowd..
• ABCD - American Born Confused Desi (Indian) - This is if you are born in the USA but your parents are migrants from India. You are torn between peer pressures of American teens and young adults but also from families who want you to be complete Indians and not Americans. You want to keep your roots but not be sucked into the "arranged marriage" type of culture but though still at times, find it difficult to stand up against your parent's wishes. Hence the label, confused.
• IBCA - Indian Born Confused Americans - These are the ones who have been here for good 15-10 years or longer, born in India and grew up some there too. They too have similar issues to ABCD generations and find more in common with each other than with FOBs.

So, now you know the catagories under which the Indians classify themselves that are most commonly known. Now on to the post....

My Response To A Post On Craig's List:

RE: SO DO INDIAN MEN DESERVE NO LOVE ??? or DATES?

---

Reply to: anon-56831329@craigslist.org
Date: 2005-01-23, 9:41PM PST


I can tell you the reason why most girls, desi or non don't like to go for Indians. I have heard more than 100 stories in the last few years from every woman I know who has dated or tried a relationship with a desi guy.

1. There is always that, let's have a relationship now and I love you and I want to marry you but I won't tell anyone of my friends or family that you even exist. You are just a friend and then one fine day, make a trip to India to "visit" family and the guy either comes back married or engaged and his answer is "sorry but they forced me and now I can't do anything." Some get even worse and then say, I always told you my parents would never approve of anyone that I found and other b.s. things like that. My point is, desi guys tend to want to lie and are dishonest about long term futures even when things are going well and they don't have the balls to stand up for someone even if they love them. <<<-------- This is the BIGGEST reason why I know most women wont even look at a desi as a serious relationship matter.. What good is it if he can't be a man?

2. They are too cheap. I have actually had a desi guy ask me to split a bill at Taco Bell.. I mean, hey I don't mind going dutch but ocassionally it would be nice to see a guy actually making things a little romantic than finding the cheapest way to a date.

3. They are NOT romantic. They have no concept of how to treat a woman period. They don't know about bringing flowers on special occassions or sometimes, just cuz. They don't know how to show their emotions and care for someone. Their idea of a date is sitting at home or at Naz, watching a Desi movie over a dinner at an indian restaurant. They have no concept of doing something to please a woman and let's face it.. desi or not, women love romance.

4. They still live in the world of "I want to have fun with a gf right now" but when it comes to marriage, I want my wife to a be "pure virgin." They want to go around screwing people by lying and deception and that's why they go back home to get their so called "virgins" to marry. Another wards, they are hypocrits!! You can't build a long term relationship with someone who is a hypocrit, lies, and builds a relationship based on deception.

5. Ugliness, Hygine, and manners - Not every desi guy is a tall, dark and handsom. My friend dated a guy who admitted to her that even today, he doesn't like taking a shower and usually goes 3-5 days without a shower, using the D.O. Some of them lack complete manners. They are loud when you talk to them.. they talk at you and no with you.. sometimes they make funny sounds which are perfectly acceptible in India but not here... And, people, what's with that thick bushy mustache? This is a very indian thing.. Most guys in India like to keep a mustache because it represents manliness.. but what good is your mustache if you can't stand up for your own self, make your own decision, and despite being 20 or 30 or 40, have to follow your mom and dad's rules? Mustache doesn't make you a man.. and WOMEN Don't like it!!!! Get rid of it!!!

6. If you ever go to indian "matrimonial" sites, they look for "slim, fair, can cook, clean, working or prefer to stay home, can take care of my parents and children type" and when these desi guys try to date, they also look for the same. Dating is not the same as arranged marriage. Arranged marriages are like a
business deal and dating is when you actually get to know a person and see if there can be a future. Be open minded and ask for something that you deserve. I
have seen too many ugly guys wanting the Julia Roberts equiv. from indian girls and it's just not realistic. I mean, most desis can make a decision to marry
someone by meeting them for an hour yet, when it comes to dating, you seem to have too many demands that you yourself cannot adhere to.

I don't mean to generalize but most women will give you a reason or reasons between the above mentioned ones as to their experiences with a desi guy. Since there aren't that many desis to go around, once a woman has one or two experience like this, they stay away from desis in general.. Hence, anyone who may not even fit in to this catagory will suffer because of your fellow desi men who have used and abused these above mentioned criterias too much.

So, all of you desi men.. scratch that.. BOYS out there no matter the age.. Get with the program here.. Be sincere, honest, and pick which side of the culture fense you want to play in. You can't switch cultural sides when only it's fun to you and need someone for timepass. If you are seriously looking for a relationship that can be fun and turn into something meaningful, do the following:

1. Clean Hygine.
2. Don't hide your dating someone to anyone, be it your family or friends. No one is asking you to intoduce them on your first date but when you have moved to base 2 or further, it's time to stop hiding. Hiding shows you have no good intensions.
3. Learn how to treat a woman and how to be romantic. There are plenty of free sites on the web that can give you some lessons on how to woo a woman or simply date.
4. Be respectful and leave the hypocracies behind. Treat others as you would want to be treated. If you can just follow those four rules, your chances of being noticed and accepted by a woman are higher. Good luck.
   

End of Post.. And this my friend begun a flood of e-mails to me.... Update on the next Blog entry...